Supreme Court to discuss 10 Commandments
I am a religious person, but I am not in favor of doing anything that abrogates the separation of church and state. When I walk into a government building I expect not to be hammered with religious items or paraphenalia.
When we do what we can to promote equality we are a stronger nation. It is fine to have faith and there are many good people who do. But it is important for all citizens to feel like they are part of one nation, no one should feel disenfranchised because of religion.
You can tell a lot about society about how it treat it’s minorities.
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SelenaJ October 13, 2004 at 8:25 pm
I do not want to walk into a goverment building and see religious items either. There is a very good reason for seperation of church and state and it should be kept that way. I would not have prayed at the jury duty either.
Anshel's Wife October 13, 2004 at 2:51 pm
“And you are also right!” Sorry, just too tired to get riled up this morning.
But let me ask you how you feel about Jewish groups lighting menorahs at a state capitol? How did you feel when you saw Arnold dancing with the chassidim?
Just curious about your answer.
Jack's Shack October 13, 2004 at 2:26 am
First of all, I wouldn’t feel uncomfortable walking into a courtroom with the 10 Commandments shown prominently because I’m Jewish and because this country was founded on Judeo-Christian ethics.I can make an argument that would negate that pretty quickly. The short version is this. The Aseret Dibrot are translated differently in English by some people and that impacts things.
There is a fundamental difference between Judaism and Christianity. Tshuvah and redemption are not the same concept, nor should they be treated the same way.
And the issue of what the US was founded on does not mean that it was meant to be a theocracy. There is plenty of evidence that supports that religion was always supposed to be separate and little to none that suggests that it should be incorporated.
Do you think a Hindu person is going to feel nervous if he sees the 10 commandments? I was a stranger in a strange land. I take that seriously. And I think that is incumbent upon us to be concerned about the feelings of those who have no religious connection to the 10 commandments.
What about a jury of one’s peers? Isn’t that what he should be worried about? Of course, but that is part of why religion should be removed, so that you feel like you are part of something and not excluded.
I have sat on two juries. The first time I did it a minister was on the jury with me. He wanted everyone to pray before we began. I haven’t any problem with silent prayer, but I am not joining in a prayer in jesus’ name and should not be expected to.
11 jurors prayed together and then there was me. I was instantly different. Now, I am not afraid of being by myself. I argued for two days by myself and in the end convinced 11 other people that we had missed something in the testimony.
But there was tremendous pressure from the rest of the group. They all wanted me to just agree with them and to just pray. I won’t be bullied and I don’t expect anyone else to be. It is not right.
This country needs more religion, not less. This is not taking religion away from anyone, it is working on making sure that people feel like there is a level playing field, and that is a concept that Judaism can stand behind.
More religion is not a cure for societies ills. Torquemada believed in what he was doing and so have the popes who launched crusades and those that fought in them.
One need not believe to be moral.
A little off the topic, but I find that goyim are much more accepting of my orthodox Judaism than non-orthodox Jews.
I am sure that is true in some cases, but much of it stems from education, or should I say a lack of education.
If everyone went to church or synagogue or mosque or temple or whatever, this country would be doing so much better morally Again I categorically deny this and am happy to dispute it. Not everyone requires the structure of religion to behave in a kind and moral manner. And as mentioned there are many examples of bad religious people.
That doesn’t mean that there are not good religious people there are, but when people claim that only religious folks are moral there is a problem.
Stacey October 13, 2004 at 2:24 am
Has it ever occurred to you, Yetta, that people can be moral without being religious?
And just because you happen to be a believer makes it ok for the 10 Commandments to be displayed? What if it was an atheist’s creed that was displayed instead? How would you feel about it then? Their rights are protected by our govt. just as much as yours.
There is no place for religion in government. The commandments don’t belong there.
Anshel's Wife October 13, 2004 at 12:53 am
First of all, I wouldn’t feel uncomfortable walking into a courtroom with the 10 Commandments shown prominently because I’m Jewish and because this country was founded on Judeo-Christian ethics.
Do you think a Hindu person is going to feel nervous if he sees the 10 commandments? What about a jury of one’s peers? Isn’t that what he should be worried about?
This country needs more religion, not less.
A little off the topic, but I find that goyim are much more accepting of my orthodox Judaism than non-orthodox Jews.
If everyone went to church or synagogue or mosque or temple or whatever, this country would be doing so much better morally and maybe the minorities (non Jewish/Christian/Muslim????) that you are talking about won’t have to worry about walking into a courtroom feeling uncomfortable. Maybe courtrooms will be used only for positive things.
I know I sound a bit too idealistic to be chassidic. I went to Camp Tawonga in Yosemite as a kid.
Jack's Shack October 12, 2004 at 9:30 pm
This is specific to the separation of church and state and making sure that minorities feel safe and secure when dealing with government agencies.
For example, when you walk into court you shouldn’t worry about whether a difference in religion is going to cause problems for you.
Anshel's Wife October 12, 2004 at 9:02 pm
What if minorities are somehow offended by the Declaration of Independence? There are many people who don’t agree with the Constitution. Yet, these documents are displayed publicly. This country was founded on certain ideas and beliefs. That is our history. You can’t please all of the people all of the time. Not even some of the time. There are people who move here from other countries to reap the benefits of the US, but complain bitterly about mistreatment as they drive their fancy cars (or just car, something they wouldn’t have in their home countries), live in homes (as opposed to huts in their old countries), have education for boys AND girls, etc. This country is great for minorities. But which minorities are you talking about anyway?
And I feel qualified to talk about this because my husband is from Ukraine and this is a hot topic at our house. We are also observant Jews.