“President Bush said today the United States and its allies have disrupted at least 10 serious plots by the al Qaeda network in the past four years, as he sought to rally the nation against international terrorists and warned foreign governments against supporting them.
In what the White House billed as a major speech, Bush told the National Endowment for Democracy in Washington that of the “10 serious al Qaeda terrorist plots” that he said have been disrupted since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, three involved “al Qaeda plots to attack inside the United States.”
President Bush said today the United States and its allies have disrupted at least 10 serious plots by the al Qaeda network in the past four years, as he sought to rally the nation against international terrorists and warned foreign governments against supporting them.
In what the White House billed as a major speech , Bush told the National Endowment for Democracy in Washington that of the “10 serious al Qaeda terrorist plots” that he said have been disrupted since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, three involved “al Qaeda plots to attack inside the United States.”
In his speech, Bush outlined what he said was a broad strategy by Muslim terrorists to dominate much of the world.
“The militants believe that controlling one country will rally the Muslim masses, enabling them to overthrow all moderate governments in the region, and establish a radical Islamic empire that spans from Spain to Indonesia,” he said. “With greater economic and military and political power, the terrorists would be able to advance their stated agenda: to develop weapons of mass destruction, to destroy Israel, to intimidate Europe, to assault the American people, and to blackmail our government into isolation.”
Here is a sample of the comments:
It’s hard to claim credit for the absence of an event.
Booga Booga. Poll numbers going down? Time to bring out the scare tactics.
Meanwhile, Bush remarked that the US has successfully thwarted 10 Al-Qaeda plotted attacks on the US. Not to offend anybody or anything, but am I the only one who wonders if this is actually true, or just a strategy to up support for the war??
Something has got to be done about the divisive attitude and approach so many take in the US. It is not about Red versus Blue state, it is about understanding that we waste so much energy attacking each other. If we could just channel that energy.
BTW, FWIW, I have no doubt that AQ has made multiple attempts to attack the US. If you read OBL’s fatwa you know that he is trying to restore the caliphate. And if you look at the number of incidents that preceded 911 and those worldwide that followed it then it makes sense to me to say that it is likely that they have tried to hit us again.
Time passes and people grow complacent at our own peril.
Soccer Dad,
I’ll tell you why I am not as worried about providing excuses. It really has to do with what I have seen happen in Israel.
Hezbollah says that they will stop attacking Israel if Israel withdraws from Lebanon.
What happens? They find a different reason to continue to attack and an excuse as to how the withdrawal really wasn’t completed.
The Palestinians do it too and so does AQ.
It is an ideological battle in which they are unwilling to give because of philosophical differences.
Again, the significance is not whether OBL has excuses, the significance is whether we provide OBL with reason to recruit more terrorists. In other words, it is the excuses of those he recruits that matter, not OBL himself.
Bill said: “They don’t need to make excuses, we provided it for them.”
and Bin-Ladin has been after us for years LONG before Iraq…what excuse did we give them then? The 1st WTC bombing? the USS Cole? the Embassies? Who was in office then??
I forgot, this was all Bush’s fault…
We are there. We are going to continue to be there, because it is in OUR interest to be there. If the rest of the world -INCLUDING the Arab world doesn’t like it, then they should try to get the fundies in gear. Enough said.
Soccer Dad said: “How is our presence there helping clean up the mess?”
the mess of the invasion, or the mess of the aftermath?
Do you think that Europesuddenly went into Eutopian reverie after the collapse of the Nazi Regime??? Should we not have implemented the Mershall plan???
You don’t think there would be a full scale civil war if we weren’t there? We invaded, we own the responsibility of the aftermath. The assistance with infrasturcture, and with troops.
We are there at the pleasure of the Iraqi Interrim Government. When they want us out, we go. I can’t imagine the Iraqis in power would want an invading force in their country any longer than was needed. If they see a benefit, certainly we must.
And as for us, we are NOT the only ones there. The world has provided what they are willing to provide to assist Iraqis as they make the long journey towards true self-governance. Not everyone sent troops, admittedly. Are you going to tell the other participating countries that the $ they are spending over there isn’t helping to clean up the mess?
Did you ever stop to consider that the “mess” in Iraq is a mess that our foreign policy LET happen, and now we actually may see the error of that policy and are going to see it through until we get results that make more sense for our interests AND the interests of the Iraqis? We helped to break it, so we must, fix it.
Thanks – I’ll be sure to take you up on it if I have any Q’s… just curious what you think – how awesome is the drive from the Valley to the city?! I love going down the canyon… it feels like go-carting. (Maybe it’s because Cleveland is so flat…)
Michele at Aprilbaby’s California Life
It is my pleasure.
Ezzie,
I live in Valley Village and have spent the better part of 33 years in the Valley. If you have any other questions just let me know, I am happy to help.
The Valley is a really nice place… that’s where we’re headed in 10 days. It’s beautiful.
Thanks for all the tips Jack!
Hey Jack,
First, thanks for responding to my silly little spew on the Valley; I’m glad you agree… people can think what they want, but it’s a great place to live.
Now regarding your post – again, I agree with you: whether we agree with the administration or not, we’d be fools not to realize that terrorism is a serious threat. It has been for decades now. And once you know the history of Al Queda and other terrorists organizations, you know they do not give up.
I saw the civil infighting in our country happening just days after Sept. 11th and thought… we need to come together to deal with this. But I’ve only become frustrated with the polarization.
Terrorism is not a problem that can be solved by throwing money at it or by giving land (i.e. Gaza). It’s a much deeper issue.
I’m not saying people have to agree with this administration.
My point is… rather than bickering amongst ourselves, we should be keeping terrorism in clear focus.
I’ll step off my soap box now. As you see I don’t touch politics in my blog. So I’ll just vent on yours, if you don’t mind.
Anyway, I like your blog, and find your a thoughtful person. Thanks for visiting mine.
Michele at Aprilbaby’s California Life
Just to shake things up a bit … I wonder who has killed more people in their quest for world dominance. Us? or Them?
I almost forgot to answer this. I can’t answer this without some more details. What is the timeframe and what countries are we looking at. Is this the West, just the US?
I am short on time so this will be a bit of a hit and run post.
Soccer Dad, there is plenty of empirical evidence to support the premise that the fundies were bringing the fight to us.
One could argue that this fight began in ’79 with the Iranian hostage crisis. Reagan’s admin was hit with the barracks bombing in ’83 and then there are many other attacks that all took place prior to the second invasion of Iraq.
They include the USS Cole, the African Embassies, the Khobar Towers, the first attack on the WTC and then 911.
The point is that they came looking for us. Now we can engage in a discussion about why they did that and whether our policies played a role, but that is a separate discussion.
As to whether our presence is helping or hindering our cause, that is something that I am undecided upon.
I am undecided because I think that much of this remains to be seen. It remains to be seen whether we can help make something out of this or if we have done nothing other then replace one kind of problem (Saddam’s dictatorship) with civil unrest.
Also, just for kicks I’d like to repost something I put up in May about the possibility of there having been a third bomber involved in the Oklahoma City bombing.
The link is here but I am going to throw it up at the top again.
SoccerDad – that’s the point, though. They don’t need us to fuel them; they fuel themselves regardless. What we are doing there is building up the Iraqi security forces so they can take care of the issues themselves; which in turn would reduce the hate, as more and more Muslims realize that the terrorists are just out to kill, not ‘rid Iraq of occupation’. I just saw a great link to a blogger who does an analysis of the Iraqi security forces… unfortunately I can’t remember where (prob through an open trackback?), but the basic gist was that 80 units are at level 2 readiness, 35 more at level 3. There are about 187,000 Iraqi security forces (army + police), far better than the few thousand from a year ago, but still short of the close to 300K neccessary. Building a nation takes time; timetables are never a positive.
Oddly enough, still no answer to my question. How is our presence there helping clean up the mess? I agree with many of the other statements made here, but nobody can answer how it is that we’re helping the situation. Sure, pulling out tomorrow would be a catastrophe, but there seems to be no plan as to how to withdraw and that recognizes what it is that we’re actually doing there now.
As for terrorists finding “excuses” and there being an ideological war … there will always be people who hate us and wish to destroy us. The dilemma is in keeping that number as small as possible. What we’ve done is provide fuel to the terrorists to grow their numbers and the hatred for people who may have been on the edge and who could have gone either way. What we’ve done is to provide the ideologists (is that a word?), the radicals, the leaders, a powerful tool to recruit more people to their side. They don’t need to make excuses, we provided it for them.
Hi Ezzie,
There are a million things to do. It really depends on what you are interested in and how much time you have.
There are some good museums, great fruit stands and restaurants. If you like Yeminite Food you might enjoy The Magic Carpet. Pats is pretty good too.
It can be pleasant to walk around the 3rd Street Promenade in Santa Monica or hang out at the Pier.
Or if you like historical sites you could check out this link and see if anything catches your fancy.
This is a link to some movie locations around the city.
In Oxnard you can go to Herzog Wine Cellars for Kosher Wine tasting. Click here
Check out this for more info on that:
http://www.jewlicious.com/index.php?p=1384
Jack – any suggestions on what to do in LA? Last year we went to Universal and the Grove.
As a slight addition… Bush made an excellent point about the terrorists finding ‘excuses’ in his speech. I’m not sure if you saw it, SoccerDad, but it’s worth checking out. Freedom
Folks,
I wanted to say a couple of things. First, I am enjoying the debate and I encourage you to feel free to keep it going.
And now for a much delayed response to some of you.
Ezzie,
Leave cleveland for Los Angeles, that is a treat. I’d say more but I don’t want the Shmata Queen to feel too badly as her sentimental side is always affected by the mistake by the lake. 😉
Why are the terrorists using Iraq to their advantage? It’s recruiting tool #1. A foreign, occupying power in the heart of the muslim world.
Soccer Dad,
I am not sold on this argument. I think that we are in the middle of an ideological war and that this is a problem that we would face regardless of whether we were there or not.
Israel pulled out of Lebanon and Hezbollah still found excuses to attack.
In some ways I am more concerned about the training that the terrorists are receiving there.
SoccerDad… also don’t want to turn this into a post about Iraq, but even most Democrats feel that leaving now (or even setting a timetable) would be a big mistake.
In addition, do you truly think that the US has created greater terrorism by going into Iraq? Or that the focus of the terrorists switched to Iraq, once the US invaded? I’d say the latter.
Oh, one other thing … I’d be curious if you could explain how our continued presence is helping to clean up the mess.
As originally sold to the American public (which was persuaded, unfortunately), as well as the international community (which for the most wasn’t), the primary reason for going into Iraq was because of Saddam Hussein’s possession and willingness to use WMD — including chemical and biological weapons. In addition to that, was the potential threat that he had a nuclear weapons program in place.
As a result of these weapons, he posed a risk to us that had to be removed.
When that turned out to be false, the reasons began to shift … and shift again … and shift again.
Now, we find out that we need to remain there because Iraq is the center of the fight against terrorism. Well, actually, it is because we are there.
Why are the terrorists using Iraq to their advantage? It’s recruiting tool #1. A foreign, occupying power in the heart of the muslim world.
soccerdad said…
{Here’s something to debate. Iraq wouldn’t be the center of the terrorist fight if we hadn’t gone in under false pretenses. Now that we have, the terrorists are using the opportunity to their advantage. Do we bear any responsibility?}
Soccer: i don’t want to hi-jack Jack’s blog with disucssions on Iraq…so I’ll be brief…comparatively…
here are my thoughts:
Your premise is that we went into Iraq under false pretenses. To my knowledge, only the WMD has turned out to be wrong…unless the photos of the warheads that our soldiers found aren’t real…Bush used the Word “Nuclear” (or nucular, as he forever mispronounces it)and that’s where everyone got stuck. I believe the argument FOR going in INCLUDED WMD, but was not limited to that.
We get there and no NUCLEAR weapons, but plenty of long range weaponry…my son’s FOB was formerly the respository and partial ass’y area for some of this activity.
I don’t understand what you mean by the terrorists using it to their advantge, though. Please clarify.
In either case we bear responsiblity for the aftermath of our actions. Which is why I become aggravated when people say “bring our troops home” Don’t you think I want my boy home instead of begging G-D to deliver him home safely? Whatever mess has been made, we must clean up. I hope you don’t agree that we should leave before we have had a chance to take responsiblity for the aftermath…
liquidiamonds …
Replace “liberals and Democrats” with “conservatives and Republicans” and I could say the same thing. Or, how about this, get past the overgeneralizations and deal in real terms, real specifics.
Here’s something to debate. Iraq wouldn’t be the center of the terrorist fight if we hadn’t gone in under false pretenses. Now that we have, the terrorists are using the opportunity to their advantage. Do we bear any responsibility?
Bill – let me clarify – about sending my son over,I was making a jest, don’t take it seriously. 🙂
Discourse and DISCUSSION between opposing sides is the only way to mend the apparent widening rift.
My problem with just about every liberal or democrat I’ve met or spoken with (with the exceptio of one) has never been able to articulate their stance on anything without starting with the Bush bashing and answering a quetsion meant to encourage honest discussion with something that isn’t germain to the topic. They can’t discuss – they just pull out the same set of examples: no WMD, Bush is an Idiot, he’s a rightwing fools who wants to take our rights away, etc…
I’m not convinced about Harriet Meirs, and I personally thinkg in my humble opinion) that Bush missed an opportunity to follow on the heels of a Justice Roberts and nominate someone of real legal merit.
Now, if Gerard was attempting humor and I missed it, then I’m denser that I thought I was…
Gerard can say what he wants as can we all. I just wish the left would stop reducing themselves to personal attacks and the same tired groove of complaints…
Liquidiamonds – while I agree Gerald’s response needs a lot of work it is polemic irrational confused and off topic, but not all of us on the left are left-wing losers.
All too often the left responds emotionally as it feels itself to be the victim at the hands of the Bush administration. (I’m not sure if I would call Gerald’s comment emotional though)
However, Just what do just what do you mean by “When my boy gets home from Iraq in June, I’ll send him to your house, Gerard?”
Are you implying that because Gerald has a different opinion that he is deserving of a good old A-Wuppin?
So much for freedom of speech.
That said I concur with Jack what language is Gerald speaking?
Oh and all you Clevelanders check out track # 5 on Bowling for Soup’s Album entitled ,A Hangover You Don’t Deserve (-:
October in Cleveland is just gorgeous, Ezzie. I miss it!
HAHA… It’s quite sad, really… A good friend had refused to follow the Indians all year, stating, “They’ll make a nice run, but when it comes down to it, they’ll just miss the playoffs in the final days.” He’d even cut me off when I started to say a word about them recently. Motzei shabbos, I get a voicemail – “Hi Ezzie, I just wanted to tell you – I told you so. CLICK”
Cleveland is cursed, at least sports-wise. I’m almost afraid to watch the Cavs this year.
I’ll be in Cleveland next week – IMHO, the first days of Sukkos are often the nicest days of the year there. Then we hightail it out to LA (Jack?) for a week.
Curious what you thought of my slight analysis, Jack (it’s short, because I was originally planning on just putting up pieces of the speech).
I agree we need to end the divisiveness. The trouble with Bush’s speech today is that he won’t give any details, which is akin to McCarthy saying he has a list of names. The last time we trusted him we ended up attacking a country that did not have WMDs.
LD,
Thanks. I appreciate it.
JB,
Agreed.
Soccer Dad,
I have no disagreement with asking for more specific details about these plots.
I think that there are huge trust issues many of which are deserved, but some have been generated by the media and comments by us, the general public.
In the end I am most concerned with seeing some type of healing effort. One way or another we have to get beyond the finger pointing. I am not saying or suggesting that we ignore all of the things that have happened, but we can’t keep going in this direction.
Well said, soccerdad.
Here’s where I agree with you … the divisive crap needs to end. The problem with what Bush has said, at least what you quoted here, is that there’s no “there” there. What were the three AQ plots to attack in the U.S. that were thwarted? What were the other seven? A little more detail would go a long way to restoring his credibility. But without any detail he lost his right to be trusted a long time ago. It has nothing to do with being divisive and everything to do with whether he deserves trust.
Happy New Year, by the way, Jack 🙂
gerard – spoken like a left-wing loser. Jack’s point had nothing to do with the appointment of Harriet Meyers, or being a Bush follower.
According to the left, it’s all scare tactices…like the NY Subway plot that was foiled…wait – Bush was in office, that doesn’t count…what about the 2000 Seattle/ Los Angeles Plot??? what? wer’e not supposed to follow St. Clinton?
When my boy gets home from Iraq in June,I’ll send him to your house, Gerard.
To answer your question Jack, that’s what should be done.
And by the way, Cleveland isn’t that bad…sort of…
To be perfectly honest I’m quite suprised we haven’t had more attacks. The fact that we haven’t just tells me they are doing a pretty decent job keeping these guys under wraps. I didn’t undertsnad a word Gerald said either but I did get a good laugh trying.
No Ezzie, Stacey most definitely did NOT say that. I loved growing up in Cleveland and would move back there in a heartbeat.
Hi Ezzie,
I’ll go look. BTW, Stacey says that getting out of cleveland really helped to expand her mind and enabled her to develop a taste for good sports teams.
It is nice to root for a winner.
You might like… I wrote a short analysis of the first half of his speech. Second part should come later tonight… Here’s Part I.
Gerald,
If you spoke English I might understand what you just said. What the hell is this?
Oy. You like Bush? We should all follow and not make trouble, eh?
Be a good boychic, and you might get on the supreme court like Harriet. Nice name, Harriet.
I tell you what: you don’t wanna be divisive… get a kopf get away from that Bushie boy. There are more of us here that you over there… about time.
Like the say, what’s a nice girl like you doing here? Oh, I see: you’re not a nice girl. Come, stand by me.